RAl Radiotelevisione Italiana presents
TRAVELLING TIME by ANDREl TARKOVSKY
and by: TONINO GUERRA
It must be Andrei.
- Did you have anything to eat? - Yes, thank you.
You know, Andrei, I wrote some poetry last night.
- Oh, yes? - Yes, for you.
- For me? - Yes, I want to read it to you.
I write poetry in dialect, not in Italian.
But I will read it in Italian
so maybe you will understand something.
I don't know what a house is
Is it a coat?
Or an umbrella if it rains?
I have filled it with bottles, rags, wooden ducks,
curtains, fans
It seems I never want to leave it
Then it's a cage
That imprisons whoever passes by
Even a bird like you, dirty with snow
But what we told each other
Is so light that it cannot be kept in
It's good.
It's very good.
It's very sad.
No, it gives us some hope.
Everything will go well.
Today is a terrible day.
We need to have a plan
because otherwise we'll never manage to do anything.
I took down some notes.
Here we are.
We need to go through everything.
We want to keep of the journey what we did.
What can be used for the screenplay.
And we can throw away the rest.
But we need to have a generaI list.
We should start from Sorrento.
Excuse me a second.
Yes? Oh, Michelangelo. Yes, we are here.
Say hello to Michelangelo for me.
He says hello.
Thank him for everything.
That's okay.
Okay.
You come here. So you are coming as well?
So you come here at 10:00,
and then we go to the airport together.
A big hug.
Bye.
Andrei. I have spoken to Michelangelo.
He told me he was the first one
to do the documentary on Bomarzo.
- Ah, yes? - Yes, there were all the roots
and nobody was taking any notice.
That's nice. He says we were there for a day.
Anyway, he wants to see it.
He says he wants to say hello to you.
Thank you.
No, but personally.
Toni, I've been thinking a lot about what you said to me...
About those, shall we say, problems?
You see, I've got a complicated impression. I am confused, you see?
The things that I saw yesterday
seem as if I saw them a week ago.
About our journey that was a month ago,
I feeI as if it was just a moment ago.
Everything got mixed up, the time and the space.
I feeI as if for Italy, the ability to perceive the depths of perspective
has not been invented yet.
Proportions...
as we saw those trees, standing on the plain...
This scope somehow reminds me of Russia and its spaces.
Everything else looks kind of flat, as if it was located on a surface.
The effect is so strong, it bothers...
All southern Italy, with Sorrento and everything we saw...
What are your most enduring images out of all we have seen?
Toni, I understand. I'll tell you honestly.
In the beginning of our journey I felt somewhat strange,
because in the south of Italy, on the shore, it seemed to me...
Amalfi.
Very nice.
It's more like a resort place, a place for rest, for tourists.
This irritated me a bit.
Most of all I liked, let's say, Amalfi or the place called Flore.
Maybe this is where the pirates used to come.
I think it's the only place where you can easily land.
Where you can reach the shore.
You know, I would be sorry...
Frankly, I would be very sorry
if we threw away all Lecce and its baroque.
Because it's beautifuI.
You know, the Lecce baroque is unique and sophisticated.
It's simple.
There could be some naked columns
with some huge work inside.
So, this flourish... This eccentricity
only appears in some particular areas.
Then, do you remember those churches...
All this Lecce stone.
I think that priest talked about a speciaI stone.
It's all in the altars.
Altars, altars and simplicity.
And I like it. Lecce really impressed me.
Maybe we could use it.
For instance, if our character was an architect,
it would be a pity if he did not see Lecce.
Tonino, I think this place is too beautifuI for our movie.
It's too beautifuI.
It's very interesting by itself, but I think, that for our character,
notwithstanding his interest in architecture, it's too beautifuI.
Our character doesn't always have to be
at ingenious architecturaI sites.
Wait. We can stop this priest.
He'll know more than us.
The Lecce baroque flourished
because it's easy to work the locaI stone.
It's a soft stone.
It's a soft stone that can be easily worked on.
And it's also very resistant
as you can see.
I could also add that under the cathedraI
lies the antique chapeI. The antique church.
There are 48 columns.
But they all have their own symmetry.
You'll see all these straight columns.
I see.
There is a good priest that will explain everything to you.
I understand.
Then the mosaics on the floor are symbolic.
They date back to even before Dante.
Here there was a literary culture that preceded Dante.
All the different cultures,
Indian, Persian, Egyptian,
Mesopotamic, Scandinavian, Hellenistic,
Platonic and Augustinian, BiblicaI
and Breton cultures are on this tree.
And in all cultures there is something true.
And to enrich themselves, being faithfuI to their politicaI and religious beliefs,
human beings take whatever they need from other cultures.
In an open way.
This concept was reaffirmed by the second Vatican CounciI.
But we already lived it.
It's the BiblicaI concept.
So in respect of these cultures,
today we can have a dialogue with all cultures.
Without any obstacles. Without any ideology.
I am very happy that the Madonna deI Parto
will probably be in the film.
Because it's so beautifuI. Very beautifuI.
I got a bit worried
when I saw these reproductions.
Look at all this red. It's not there.
The walls seem to be ready to eat the painting.
There is so much dust.
And there is this blue and white on the lap. It's incredible.
Here it's nothing.
So I don't believe in painting reproductions,
I don't believe in poem translations.
The art is very jealous.
Very jealous.
You must look for it at home.
Some young people sent a few questions.
Listen to this.
If you had to talk to today's and yesterday's great directors,
for what reasons would you thank each of them
for what you feeI they gave you?
First of all, I have to recollect, not recollect, I always remember
ingenious Dovzhenko,
Alexander Dovzhenko, "La Terra" by Dovzhenko.
The mute movie.
Outstanding director.
In that era of silent movies, he made miracles, in my opinion.
Poetic cinema.
I'll be brief in answering this question.
Then... Bresson,
Robert Bresson.
Bresson has always astonished me and attracted me with his ascetics.
It seems to me that he is the only director in the world
that has achieved absolute simplicity in cinema.
As it was achieved in music by Bach, in art by Leonardo...
Tolstoy achieved it as a writer.
For me, Tolstoy, do you understand?
Therefore for me he's always been an example of ingenious simplicity.
Ascetics...
Antonioni, for sure.
Because Antonioni has made a strong impression on me
with his films, especially with adventures,
for which you, by the way, wrote a script.
Yes, you helped and you made the script.
I find the movie very interesting.
I realised then, watching this film, that "action",
the meaning of action in cinema is rather conditionaI.
There's practically no action going on in Antonioni films.
And this is the meaning of "action" in Antonioni films.
More precisely, in those Antonioni films that I like the most.
I like Fellini for his kindness, for his love of people,
for his, let's say, simplicity
and intimate intonation.
If you'd like to know -
not for popularity, but rather for his humanity -
I value him tremendously. His baroque, exuberant, beautifuI...
His movie "Pale Moon Tales" is astounding in its simplicity,
elegance and wonderfuI nobleness
of picture and acting.
I remember Vigo with tenderness and thankfulness,
the French director,
who, in my opinion, is the father of modern French cinema.
First, the new wave, then what this wave has thrown out on the shore,
what has left after this wave.
It was...
Vigo has founded the French movie, and nobody has gone farther than him.
Then, with great pleasure and thankfulness I always remember
the films of Sergei Paradzhanov, that I like very much.
His way of thinking is very paradox and poetic.
His ability of loving the beauty,
his skill of being completely free inside his own creation.
Where did we see all those hydrangeas?
Do you remember?
No, I don't.
Ravello. Ravello. I think it was in that cloister.
I remember the lessons of Bergman,
his films that I like very much
and that I watch over and over every time I start making a new film of my own.
This villa, was it built by order of a Russian princess?
No, it wasn't built by order of a Russian princess.
But by order of the Borboni of Naples and of the Two Sicilies.
But at one point a Russian princess
became the owner.
Yes, the Russian princess came here once the villa
was given as a present to Maria Filiberta di Savoia,
who sold it to the Korchakov.
And to be precise, to the princess Elena Korchakova.
Tell him, please.
- Do you understand? - Yes, I understand.
I want to ask you a question.
We came here for a very odd thing that happened to me.
Seven, eight years ago, someone told me about a floor.
And I have gone crazy and hope I'll drive him crazy as well
in an attempt to see this floor.
It's a white floor, made by Palizzi, with some rose petals.
Yes, it's true.
And who built that? It was the princess.
Yes. That floor is in the villa.
It was designed for this villa by the painter Filippo Palizzi.
In 1888, I believe.
And it's unique.
In fact, it's very big, about 15 metres long.
With rose petals scattered everywhere. Rose petals and leaves.
In memory of a Portuguese countess.
No, sorry.
It's the same.
No, she wasn't Portuguese. Sorry, she was Hungarian.
I made a mistake.
Yes, an eighteen-year old
Hungarian countess,
of whom the Borbone fell madly in love.
Then, this countess died and apparently the Borbone went mad
and flung every object that the countess had touched into the sea.
Tell Andrei that I told him the truth.
We are close to the villa and the current owner won't let us see the floor
but the floor is there.
It's not true that the owner won't let you see the floor.
Unfortunately, the owner is not in Sorrento at the moment.
So, we cannot gain access
to the rooms where the floor is.
Okay, but we've been trying to get in touch with her for four days.
Now, it seems a bit...
Well, this is unlikely.
I received a call at 9:15 this morning.
I did not have the time to talk to her and ask her to canceI her engagements.
I am okay. I just wanted to prove that the floor is actually there.
Because we went to see the bread and the bread is not there.
- You made up the whole bread thing. - You made up the whole bread thing.
It's not true. It's not true.
It's not important.
At this moment the owner doesn't live here.
I can let you take a picture of the floor on the terrace
where there is a plaque in memory of a party that was held here
at Parco dei Principi. The famous Julia Sedova was a guest,
the great ballet dancer of the Saint Petersburg ImperiaI Theatre.
Here he'll show us another floor on the terrace,
that was made in memory of Julia Sedova,
the great ballet dancer of the Saint Petersburg ImperiaI Theatre.
Of her performance here...
In memory of such a poetic story, Princess Korchakov
asked Palizzi to paint this floor with rose petals.
In memory of such a poetic story, Princess Korchakov asked
Palizzi to paint this floor with rose petals.
- This is a romantic story. It is beautifuI. - SentimentaI.
- Yes, a poetic and romantic story. - Very nice.
I liked the idea of the painter, of Palizzi.
He did this white floor with petals scattered here and there.
They look like they were thrown in from the window.
As those leaves are falling from the window...
I have a page of this floor
that was photographed by a magazine specialising in architecture.
It was presented as a totally unique floor.
Okay, let's see this page.
Let's see this page, let's see this page.
But what have I got to do with Sorrento?
I like it, they tell me about an extraordinary white floor,
with some roses scattered everywhere.
Is it my fault if it's not there?
Isn't it wonderfuI to see something like that?
I think it was Palizzi who did it.
Isn't it wonderfuI to see this floor?
We know that there is a closed home with a big floor
and that a woman asked for all these white tiles to be made.
With rose petals scattered around, not in a regular pattern
as if the wind had blown away some rose leaves.
Of course, it's not there.
A guy from Naples told me.
"Why do you make me go to Naples?"
I have done everything I could.
I swear, I couldn't do anything more than this.
If you had to talk to some young directors,
what would your main recommendations be?
Nowadays everyone makes movies,
everybody thinks they can make movies, you see?
Anyone that is not too lazy...
It's not hard to learn how to glue the film, how to work a camera...
But the advice I can give to beginners
is not to separate their work, their movie,
their film from the life they live.
Not to make a difference between the movie and their own life.
Because...
a director is like any other artist:
a painter, a poet, a musician...
And since it is required from him to contribute his own self,
it is strange to see directors
that take their work
as a speciaI position, given to them by destiny,
and simply exploit their profession.
That is, they live in one way, but make movies about something else.
And I'd like to tell directors, especially young ones,
that they should be morally responsible
for what they do while making their films.
Do you understand? It is the most important of all.
Secondly, they should be prepared for the thought
that cinema is a very difficult and serious art.
It requires sacrificing of yourself.
You should belong to it, it shouldn't belong to you.
Cinema uses your life, not vice versa.
Therefore I think that this is the most important...
You should sacrifice yourself to the art.
This is what I've been thinking lately about my profession.
What's the problem? He looks a bit nervous.
We always traveI to these kinds of "tourist" sites.
We always go to tourist places.
I've not yet seen a place, where...
I have not yet seen the place...
...where our character could be...
...where our character could live.
He's right but I am showing him all these places
to enrich him with all these Italian beauties.
After that, he can forget about them.
On the other hand, I could ask him a question.
On the other hand, I could ask you a question.
Why would a Russian person come here for a month?
He comes here for work or, not so much for tourism,
but for the culture.
Our character would be abstract
if we didn't show anything.
I agree that we shouldn't show too much of these beauties
but I wouldn't like him to be abstract.
I'd like to make a comparison.
In my village, there is a painter called Federico Moroni.
He's very good.
He's a great master.
Once, he gave his pupils an iron ball to hold
with the left hand.
Then he gave them a penciI to hold with the right hand
and asked them to draw a circle.
The kids drew the circle.
But it wasn't a flat circle.
It was a circle with some volume.
It contained the weight of the ball on their left hand.
Then I would like to put on his left hand as many Italian images as I can
so that if tomorrow he takes a picture of a field or something anonymous
this will contain those beauties.
I am a bit worried as I feeI like I am on holiday.
And I am not used to this state.
I am a bit worried as I feeI like I am on holiday.
And I am not used to taking holidays.
For me it's very important that we experience this way of life.
Not only the beauty of Italy...
Not only the beauty and architecture of Italy
but also the people, their work.
What happens in the streets, their feelings...
He's right but let me ask a question.
How many days have we been around?
Four days.
You must see these things.
I feeI like we've been travelling for 2 weeks.
This is a girI posing a question.
Is science fiction a world you feeI passionate about
or is it a way to escape reality?
Neither Toni. I don't like fiction,
as I don't like to escape life.
In the meaning... I think that genre in cinema always indicates
a commerciaI movie, in the bad meaning of this word "commerciaI".
I am not against popularity, but I'm against commerciaI movies.
Therefore when I make fiction films,
I don't think of them as a fiction.
For instance, I find the movie "Solaris" not so good,
because I could not escape
from the genre, from the fictionaI details.
In "Stalkin", however,
the movie that was made was based on a science-fiction story.
I think I've managed to overcome this genre
and to get rid of all "science-fiction" signs completely.
This gives me a big pleasure.
The genre problem in cinema doesn't exist for me,
because for me, cinema is an art that can cover everything:
tragedy, happiness, sadness, fun, fortune...
Only then is cinema able to reflect life.
On the other hand, I don't really
like commerciaI movies, you see?
Anyway, I am not a fan of the science-fiction genre.
And while making a movie, I first of all think of it
as a movie without any genre at all.
Why were you so fascinated by Bagni Vignone?
I thought we should make
one of the most important scenes here, in the hoteI.
Maybe not in the hoteI,
but with decorations, looking like it.
Do you remember when I felt sick
and went to room 38 to rest?
For an hour.
This room astonished me, since the window wasn't facing the street.
I didn't see any landscape. It was a well, a tiny well
with a dim light.
It was dark inside, it was always dark in this room.
It was a very strange mysterious place, like a hospitaI, maybe.
A place where one could only feeI very bad.
There is not enough air...
I thought we should make a scene here, in this room
about our character... In the moment of crisis...
That's what I thought...
Not only do I like this room,
I also like this swimming pooI, of course.
This swimming pooI from which
steam rises in the mornings...
The atmosphere of mystery, sadness and loneliness...
I think that in the late autumn it'll be very beautifuI.
It is the most important, I agree with you,
the most important scene of our future movie.
I don't think we should pay a lot of attention to the architecture,
although our character is interested in architecture.
I think it is important to pay attention to the journey
that our character makes inside himself, this is the most important.
And in my opinion, this place is very usefuI to make...
Do you cook your own food?
Yes, everything.
- Every morning? - Yes.
You are good.
And what time do you go to bed?
In the evening, towards 10:00, 10:30 pm.
What time do you get up in the morning?
4:30 am at the latest.
- Are you the one who rings the bell? - Yes.
- At midday? - At midday.
And what have you cooked today?
Well, I don't know yet.
You don't know?
Listen, now you walk towards the church.
You can go towards the church. Bye.
Straight on, towards the road.
Which films did you not manage to do and why?
There were a lot of other intentions
that I couldn't make happen.
I think that every director always has some plans
that don't happen for some reasons.
I think it's part of a director's work to have these ideas
that you cannot make happen.
I have this one scene that I like very much.
Maybe some day I'll make a movie out of it...
About a man who sets his wife on fire
only because she doesn't tell the truth, because she lies.
Lies aren't very important issues, you see?
He loves her very much, and she loves him.
She is a wonderfuI woman, they love each other,
and they have a wonderfuI relationship.
But she makes things up.
She goes out and when she comes back, he asks: Where have you been?
She answers: "I was visiting a friend. "
But he knows that she wasn't at her friend's house,
she was some place else, let's say in the movie theatre.
He doesn't understand why she lies.
I think she doesn't realise it either.
Maybe because of some self-preservation instincts.
He struggles with her
but cannot convince her not to lie.
In the end he ties her to a tree and sets her on fire, like Joan of Arc.
I like this idea very much, but I didn't make a movie out of it.
Most regrettable is one scene that I wrote together with my friend
about someone...
that looked for a place where his mother was buried.
He didn't know exactly where the grave was.
With the tombstone in his trunk he drove through a town,
looking for the place and asking the people where his mother had died,
in order to put up the tombstone.
He doesn't manage to do it and he drops off the tombstone
at the first village cemetery he sees.
And he imagines that she...
A year before she died,
my mother came to see me in Rome.
I did not live here. I lived in the Parioli area.
She came only for a day.
And towards the evening, she told me,
"The night has come".
She didn't simply mean it was the end of a day.
She was probably hinting at the end of her life.
Now the night has come also for us.
For this wonderfuI coming together.
Tell me something.
As soon as you get to Moscow, what will you feeI like doing?
I'll try to go to the village right away. I miss the village.
Larisa and I bought a little house there
to spend most of our time,
but unfortunately, it's not working out.
Half a year, about 8 months.
It was the first time I've ever lived in a village
without going away, permanently.
And I saw the whole cycle of this life.
I was astonished, because I saw that in the same place the nature...
I was in a hurry at the beginning,
I thought I was missing some important things in Moscow,
that I should go, catch up with someone.
Now I live on this land.
There are many beautifuI fields around our village, many fields.
And a very beautifuI land, especially when cultivated.
When the wheat blooms, there are many white flowers.
In the dark it looks like fog on the ground.
It is difficult to tell whether it is fog or flowers.
It is a very beautifuI view.
BeautifuI soiI. Wet soiI is violet.
Dry soiI makes a noise when you walk on it.
It reminds me of soiI we saw in Taskania on our journey, remember?
But it's also beautifuI in Romagna.
Up untiI I was 32, I lived in the country.
It's beautifuI everywhere you go.
The land is beautifuI because it's the same here,
in Russia and everywhere.
I have written a poem.
First, I'll read it in Italian because otherwise you won't understand much.
The bulls
Tell the bulls to go away
What they have done is done
Andrei!
You have not told me whether you like my house or not.
Yes, I like it a lot.
Yes, but I am sure you will change it when you go to Russia.
No.
I like it the way it is.
Oh, we pay each other compliments like some prostitutes.
Read your poem in dialect to me.
Once again.
Which one?
The one about the coat.
Ah, the one I told you this morning.
I don't know what a house is
Is it a coat?
Or an umbrella if it rains?
I have filled it with bottles, rags, wooden ducks,
curtains, fans
It seems I never want to leave it
Then it's a cage
That imprisons whoever passes by
Even a bird like you, dirty with snow
But what we told each other
Is so light that cannot be kept in
TRAVELLING TIME by Andrei TARKOVSKY